wanting to ground the radio and amps to a grounding rod

[terminater-244]

Ok I would like to ground my base to a grounding rod.Do I just run the wire to the case of the radios and amps?
What size copper wire should I use?
Do I need to ground my meter too?
The only reason that I want to do this is because some one told me that it would help get rid of RF in my house and my neighbors.I don't think that I am interfering with the nieghbors to much cause no one has complained about it yet!Any advise would be greatful.

[Iceman]

i use a barrier strip (something like this http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103229&CAWELAID=107592197 with a plate that touches all the screws so that all make contact). I use tinned copper braid with soldered fork terminals on the ends and run one from each piecr of equipment (radio, meter, tuner, amp, PS, etc). Then I run a copper wire about 10g or so from the barrier strip to the copper rod. I use a hose clamp to keep the copper wire connected to the rod. make sure to sand and clean the area on the rod where the clamp will be connected.

but the short answer to your question is YES, ground all equipment


i would say put the rod in the ground. run some nice thich copper wire from the rod (sand the top if the rod and hose clamp the wire to it)

[HiDef]

Grounding your radio stuff to a separate ground rod like that is a recipe for BIG trouble.

[terminater-244]

why would it be a recipe for big trouble?
I don't understand why you could not do this if it is on a different grounding rod. Seems like it would make it safer for your equipment. I hear of ham operators doing this to give extra protection to their equipment. Please inform me of why this would create a problem.

[HiDef]

All grounds must be tied together with a low inductance (high surface area) conductor. Otherwise your stuff will be looking at thousands of volts during nearby lightening strikes.

Hambone operators shouldn't be used as a gauge for anything. The license comes in the bottom of cocoa puffs cereal nowadays.

[Iceman]

All grounds must be tied together with a low inductance (high surface area) conductor. Otherwise your stuff will be looking at thousands of volts during nearby lightening strikes..

we have each piece of equipment ---> terminal block ---> copper wire ---> ground rod. you said this is hazardous. for what reason is this not good? and what would be an example of all grounds being tied together with a high surface area conductor?

[555 -N- Da Horn]

Hambone operators shouldn't be used as a gauge for anything. The license comes in the bottom of cocoa puffs cereal nowadays.
thank you for that post

on my equipment radio amp meters all is grounded to a 1 1/4 flat strap then runs directly behind the equipment thru the brick wall and to the ground rod
wire should not be used flat strap is what you need and 3/8 inch wide is not enough

[HiDef]

we have each piece of equipment ---> terminal block ---> copper wire ---> ground rod. you said this is hazardous. for what reason is this not good? and what would be an example of all grounds being tied together with a high surface area conductor?

Your additional ground rod must be tied to the electrical service ground and any other grounds with a high surface area conductor such as 4" copper flashing.

The reason for this is during close or direct lightening there will be thousands of volts across discreet ground rods placed only small distances apart. Your radios are plugged into the wall. The ground and neutral are tied together at the main panel. Those bond to the service ground. You just installed another ground without bonding it. Get lightening activity and there are now thousands of volts between the connection you added and the power feed.

Your suggestion might help R.F. grounding problems resulting from a poor installation but it creates a much larger problem. Check uniform electrical code online.

[295]

why would it be a recipe for big trouble?
I don't understand why you could not do this if it is on a different grounding rod. Seems like it would make it safer for your equipment. I hear of ham operators doing this to give extra protection to their equipment. Please inform me of why this would create a problem.

All grounds must be tied together. A lightining discharge looks for the least resistance and shortest path to ground. A great number of lightining strikes that harm electronics are not direct hits, but occur by hitting powerlines up to several miles away, which then find a path to your home.

Say for instance your newliy installed ground rod that you did not tie to the service panel ground just happens to be a better ground than the one at the electrical service entrance, the lightining will go through your station equipment to get to your ground rod and not get discharged at the service entrance.

In this case the path would be from the outside neutral line, through the panel, down the neutral and ground lines to your radio room, through the wall socket into your equpment (boom spark crack flash smoke), and then out to your ground to your new shiney ground rod.

You have to tie all grounds together to keep them at the same potential, you don't want any ground being more efficient than another.

I have 7, 8 foor copper clad ground rods at my station, all tied together, and a few of those are daisy chained to connect my station ground to my service entrance ground. Maximum seperation is 8-12 feet between each rod.

Nevertheless, I still disconnect everything from the wall if I know that T-Storms are coming in, including any ground wires going from my station out to my outside ground system. The best protecton is to isolate all your station equipment during a storm.

To do it right, the grounding of station is a lot of work.

[555 -N- Da Horn]

if thinking hes wanting to go with the tvi rfi ground setup
not the electrical and lightning protection ground

[terminater-244]

my starting post said....
Ok I would like to ground my base to a grounding rod.Do I just run the wire to the case of the radios and amps?
What size copper wire should I use?
Do I need to ground my meter too?
The only reason that I want to do this is because some one told me that it would help get rid of RF in my house and my neighbors.I don't think that I am interfering with the nieghbors to much cause no one has complained about it yet!Any advise would be greatful.

So 555 you hit it right on the head. I am just looking for the rfi and tvi grounding.
I am not worried about the whole save my equipment because I always unhook my equipment before a storm,when I leave home for any long period of time,and when there is an electrical outage.

[Iceman]

Your additional ground rod must be tied to the electrical service ground and any other grounds with a high surface area conductor such as 4" copper flashing.

The reason for this is during close or direct lightening there will be thousands of volts across discreet ground rods placed only small distances apart. Your radios are plugged into the wall. The ground and neutral are tied together at the main panel. Those bond to the service ground. You just installed another ground without bonding it. Get lightening activity and there are now thousands of volts between the connection you added and the power feed.

Your suggestion might help R.F. grounding problems resulting from a poor installation but it creates a much larger problem. Check uniform electrical code online.

so since i have all the pieces of equipment strapped to a terminal block which leads to the ground rod, would you suggest that i also run a copper wire from the terminal block to the screw on the reciptical switchplate in an effort to tie it all to the electrical service ground? would this be sufficient?

[075-pa]

I got all my radios and power supply grounded to my water pipe in the basement. I was told that is the best ground!!

[BOB85]

theres plenty of dodgy and sometimes dangerous grounding tips on the www, i would heed what HiDef is saying.

[HiDef]

so since i have all the pieces of equipment strapped to a terminal block which leads to the ground rod, would you suggest that i also run a copper wire from the terminal block to the screw on the reciptical switchplate in an effort to tie it all to the electrical service ground? would this be sufficient?

Go back and carefully re-read this whole thread.

You need a low inductance high surface area connection between ground rods. #12 or any usual house electrical wire will not work.

[HiDef]

So 555 you hit it right on the head. I am just looking for the rfi and tvi grounding.
I am not worried about the whole save my equipment because I always unhook my equipment before a storm,when I leave home for any long period of time,and when there is an electrical outage.

You are looking to eliminate one problem while creating another. As long as you are aware of that have at it.

If it were me I'd visit other potential causes of RFI first.

Common mode R.F. on the coax. People will spend hundreds on expensive cable in search of better shielding while the whole problem can be R.F. coming back on the OUTSIDE of the shield!

Antenna too low/near neighbors.

Garbage "linear" amplifiers instead of linear amplifier.

Here's one that gets overlooked - other transceivers (like a 2 meter rig) hooked to nearby antennas re-radiating harmonics because their front end is overloaded with R.F. while transmitting on other bands.

Dissimilar metals rectifying R.F. and retransmitting harmonics. Rusted slip-in mast pipes not making a complete electrical connection can raise hell in the 'hood.

Hopeless neighbors who won't put any ferrites on their stuff even if you give them out for free. Put up a beam and hope you don't need to use that direction.

[Iceman]

Go back and carefully re-read this whole thread.

You need a low inductance high surface area connection between ground rods. #12 or any usual house electrical wire will not work.

so basically you're telling me that the wire i use from the terminal block is insufficient? and to use something with a high surface area; would that include flat tinned copper braid? use that instead of the 12g wire?

[terminater-244]

I just believe that people have their own way of doing things.I have used the waterlines in my house before,but someone told me that I was creating more of a problem because it was being used as an antenna.Now here is the thing if a waterline is grounded what would the difference be in tying your equipment in with a service ground?I would think the RF would follow the ground wire and trace back into your home creating the same effect as hooking it up to a waterline. The way I see it is if you need to ground it then just run a seperate ground and be done with it because then you could not cause any more RF problems.It would go directly to ground and end. This is just the way I would see it working but guess I will do some more research on this and come up with some more ideas.

[HiDef]

so basically you're telling me that the wire i use from the terminal block is insufficient? and to use something with a high surface area; would that include flat tinned copper braid? use that instead of the 12g wire?


A little reading but that's what it takes:
http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23269.0;attach=179 45

Takes some navigation skills but could save you from an insurance company cop out when the place burns down:
http://www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp?categoryID=124&URL=Codes%20&%20Standards&cookie_test=1

[295]

I just believe that people have their own way of doing things.I have used the waterlines in my house before,but someone told me that I was creating more of a problem because it was being used as an antenna.Now here is the thing if a waterline is grounded what would the difference be in tying your equipment in with a service ground?I would think the RF would follow the ground wire and trace back into your home creating the same effect as hooking it up to a waterline. The way I see it is if you need to ground it then just run a seperate ground and be done with it because then you could not cause any more RF problems.It would go directly to ground and end. This is just the way I would see it working but guess I will do some more research on this and come up with some more ideas.

When it comes to electronics and grounding systems, people doing things their own way usually ends up getting themselves in trouble. A lot of CBers have gotten themselves fried/dead over the years by doing it their own way. There are specific ways to ground a station, that is why we have the UBC and the electrical codes.

Grounding usually has little to do with RFI, although it may help in some cases, the most common cause of RFI is simple RF overload, when you saturate an unsheilded device like a TV/Radio/DVD player, etc. with RF, it normally causes interference. Most RFI issues have to be fixed at the device with filtering and shielding. All the grounding in the world will make little or no difference.

Water lines rarely perform as a decent ground. A lot of newer homes have plastic piping that runs from the copper piping in the house out to the main, so it is like having no ground at all, and yes that situation can cause your inside water lines to radiate RF. A lot of older homes have galvanized piping that usually has a good coat of corrosion on the outside, it has too much resistance to perform as a decent ground. The only time I would think about using a water line as a ground is if I was sure it was all copper, and only in a temporary situation, it is not a long term solution to adequate grounding.

It sounds like you are looking for an RF ground, which is an entirely different type of "ground." There are only two main reasons to run a ground wire to earth "ground." First is for for safety, to bleed of static electricity, transient currents/lightining, and most important, to KEEP EVERYTHING AT THE SAME GROUND POTENTIAL. The other reason is you are using a type of antenna that requires an earth ground with a counterpoise system, such as a ground mounted vertical. However, most base station CB antennas do not need a ground to perform because there are designed to perform without an earth ground. The only reasons manufacturers tell you to ground your antenna is because they are required to do so by law. It has nothing to do with performance. I know guys who now refuse to ground their stations because they have lost tons of gear by doing what you propose, the single ground rod. Because a nearby strike smoked their radio gear.

Here is a good site that should give you better information to understand where HiDef and I are getting at.

http://www.iceradioproducts.com/10.html

IMO, if you don't to tie it all together, you are better off with no ground at all. Good luck to you.

[555 -N- Da Horn]

i do know of a station in lubbock that setup a large transmitter
and hooked his ground from the transmitter to the water pipe
and it would almost nearly wipe everything out within a 3 to 4 block radius
he called me up i seen the waterpipe and flat groundstrap
went a bought a 8' ground rod and dug down about a shovel scoop depth
scooped it out in a round shape cleaned out the hole and drove the ground rod all the way home then dumped a bag of rock salt into the hole watered it down and no more problems
seems his rf was traveling thru the waterline and out to the street line and into the neighbors